Well, we already suggested both: taking skill out of power calculation, and buffing useless skill so every hero has 4 useful skills.
Is unrealistic to ask for the second one on a single patch, and HHG seems like they don’t want to do the first one. So, we are stuck in an abusive system that punishes promoting heroes.
Min/max was never an issue before the ridiculous heal/revive crap that we have now. Min/max is just a by product of the never ending heal wave. PvP before the last 2 updates was a lot better than it is now and a draft system isn’t going to fix a damn thing. It’s just gonna make a tedious PvP system take even longer. The heal/revive is still gonna be out of control and will still be a main complaint of almost everyone
Ehh, I would say it started with Panzer. They released an ultra powerful burst DPS hero that also had decent survival. This allowed her to take out 2-3 lower level heroes within the first 10-15 seconds of a match if you min/maxed with her.
The healing meta just seems to have made it all worse because most people don’t want to play 3 minute long matches with no kills at the 60k+ power rating.
After all this while and HHG still can’t see it.
PVP heroes must play at the team level of the player. Extreme Offenders here: [Nomad] Rebelpath, and Sogui. Full disclosure: me too and some others (though perhaps not so extreme).
No playing plats with Silvers or Golds with Bronze. You cannot jump across 3 metal colours, only use 2. It’s toohard to keep track of different grades within one metal colour so we’ll just do without having that limitation for practical reasons.
All skills levelled up - penalties for not levelling them up or alternatively, just omit all skill power from matchmaking logarithm.
Nah, that’s not min/max. All your guys are pumped to the same level, you are just going in with less than a full squad and the power level difference vs your opponent is huuuuuge. I think you won the first two mostly because the opponnent loadouts kinda sucked - nobody there that was going to be able to break through Gale/Drake healing and invisibility.
That third match? I dunno man, with a 9* plat Panzer, plat Ifirit, Gale, and two decent supports, he probably should have torn you up.
I don’t particularly care about level stuff but since nobody seems to understand it: Levels and stars do the same thing. The only hero I regularly PVP with “underleveled” is Mandrake because he went from being my main DPS in June to a support in July (hello Panzer) so I had no reason to pump up his power anymore when my other supports were still ~3k below him in power.
I would be just as happy with an identical Mandrake that’s level 75 but only has 7*.
Regarding your other point:
Plats are garbage so I don’t even know what this would accomplish. This would solve big plat Dogface/Panzer getting thrown in on SOME trash teams but it wouldn’t even come close to solving the problem. You could still throw 10* plat Dogface onto a team of 3-5* golds and teams like mine that stick to silver/gold wouldn’t care either. It would just give me one more reason to never plat any hero I use for PVP.
I already provided the best solution: Bracket power gaps, buff AI, and buff bad heroes+skills. Those are the only 3 things I use to make my min/max teams. The first 2 items relate to me being a much better player than the AI, so I focus offensive DPS power into the hero I control, which makes me far more effective than teams who split their DPS evenly with AI and then wonder why they lose when their AI spends all match shooting at Cast. The last point is just a recognition that most gold/plat skills are not worth the ~1k power they add, but it wouldn’t be hard for HHG to give these skills modest improvements so that people aren’t better off avoiding big promotions.
Alternatively you could eliminate power differences outright by forcing duel-style teams where everyone on the team has identical stars and promotions based on your team level. But the truth is that people would hate this because it would cut out a lot of strategy and team diversity. Fighting nothing but identical 8* plats against every opponent would get boring really fast. The reality is that people want to min/max, they want to buff up their strongest heroes and prioritize them for more power, but when taken to its extremes it becomes unfun for the opponent. So bracketing power is a better alternative since it allows for limited min/max without ever being oppressive for your opponents.
You lost all credibility when the fact that you are among the min/max abusers and you keep supporting the motion of min/maxing.
When most matches that most of us are against min/maxers, it just no longer on a balance playing field. Worst if the min/max team has a high plat plus panzer; it’s given that the match will be over in seconds. It’s an ABUSE of system and they are seldom penalised ! Or rewarded by being the higher power team, reason being the system would recognise them as a “weaker” team and often match them with a weaker opponent.
As I had suggested before (as a reference point)
1, if highest is a 10* than the lowest must be a 8*
2, if highest is a plat than the lowest must be a gold2
3, experience to be given to the winning and losing team
4, failing to achieve the above pointers than the “start” match will not be enabled.
5, all skills to be normalised for both teams ( given some do not level those skills )
The above will than force min/makers to level up n upgrade those hero’s in their team and which will eventually lead to a more balanced gameplay. And the min/maxers will naturally end up playing in their team power bracket.
@Sogui is correct in saying Stars and Levels do the same things, but I want to clarify what that means.
Stars and levels affect the same values on a Hero, both are used to govern a Hero’s Stats. Hero power is primarily based on a Hero’s Stats. Therefore, stars and levels have the same relationship with Hero Power.
Stars apply a Modifier that boosts the amount of stats gained per level.
I.e
Star Modifier x Hero Level x Multiplier = Final Stat
Higher stars, lower level:
2.0 Defense Mod x lv 60 x 170 Health = 20,400 Health
Lower stars, higher level:
1.5 Defense Mod x lv 80 x 170 Health = 20,400 Health
Note: If you attempt this against in-game values note that the number calculated does not include Stats provided by grades, gear, skills, skins, or the Heroes Base Stats.
Hope this clears up some of the confusion about how Stars and Levels work.
Thank you for the breakdown - even I didn’t know the precise mechanics of the interaction, only that I had seen equivalent stats on heroes that had the same power but different levels/stars.
I’ve criticized these systems before because they place arbitrary rules on the player and most importantly they wouldn’t even effect the teams I run. My best team is 4 golds and 1 silver+3, my largest power spread is between Panzer (8.7k) and Heimlock (5.9k). A power bracket, or power collar, is an unintrusive way to reduce the impact of min/max. If someone busts out a 15k panzer with a bunch of silver scrubs ranging from 4-6k, a power collar would automatically ‘boost’ the weaker heroes until they were within _____ power of the top hero. The boost would occcur for matchmaking and gameplay purposes but tournaments would still only credit their original power level for points (so you still have an incentive to grow them).
The modification could be acknowledged with parenthesis, adding _____ levels to compensate for their lower power. The biggest problem is that it still wouldn’t fix the issue of most promotions being bunk, a “boosted” silver Gammond would still be outright superior to an equally powered Gold one. But that problem has no easy solution which is why I keep harping about the skills issue.
Alternatively HHG could just give the matchmaker some steroids for punishing discrepancies in power level but they would need to do so transparently so that the PVP forum isn’t just overrun with people facing opponents well above their power without any explanation of why (this is already a problem as it is).
Lastly, there are still big discrepancies in hero balance which is why a min/max’d team using Panzer will absolutely roll the opposition. It’s extremely common for me to face teams where one of their DPS is significantly stronger than the rest of the team, but the issue is unless that hero is Panzer, you don’t get anywhere near the kind of benefit.
Exactly. Min/maxing never seemed quite as bad until Panzer came along. Dogface posed a lesser problem because he at least takes several seconds before his abilities are ready and he can hammer weaker opponents. His health and armor also aren’t as high as Panzer either.
The first 30 seconds of a match for Panzer are when she is strongest. She has a fully loaded 20 shell shotgun, her Breach and Clear ability has a short few second delay before it’s ready, and her Assault skill gives a lot of bonus mech damage the first 30 seconds if she is platinum. Coupled with the higher health for a DPS hero means she can easily take on fire from 2-3 opponents, all the while mowing them down.
I have played min/max matches where my 8* plat Panzer who isn’t even that strong yet has killed 3 enemies in under 20 seconds. I have had matches where my opponent does the same. I understand no one wants to nerf her anymore because she is one of the few heroes able to actually burst through the heal/revive meta wall, but she created so many issues in the game.
Of course the blame isn’t all on her. There are tons of other problems with PVP and min/maxing as well. She just made things significantly worse. I rarely see anyone besides Dog and Panzer used on min/max teams, shouldn’t that tell you something?
only thing I can think of for them to counter this would be having people fight strictly within their division and no where else
Currently it is in a way, ie level 70-75 is in the championship division. That siad, the matching is base on team power so min/mazer exploit that by running silvers or bronze with other OP hero to gain advantage. That’s why putting a requisites in place ie 10* hero and least 8* and plat least gold2 will than force the Min/maxer to upgrade or putting in place huge penalties ie huge power disadvantage or their highest power will than be limited or reduced to the highest power of your teams. That way it will balance out and reduce the abuse of the system.
An old tune that is sing to death but needs to be sung continuously…
Rolling eyes 
Frankly, I DO NOT have high hopes on the coming October update
When I face the min max teams that have 10 star plat panzer and gale I just hope to kill the other 3 heroes before I lose.
For me min max is annoying and should be easily solved by adding the restriction of maximum a factor two difference in power between the highestand lowest member of a team.
More frustrated by resurection to be honest.
This topic was automatically closed 14 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.
