@C ool_hand, I have 1 suggestion to add, if a player has a team level of 70 he also needs to be penalized when using lvl 55 hero’s
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I’m not sure this is entirely accurate. They confirmed that they tweaked the formula but to the best of my knowledge they never said exactly what was done and certainly never confirmed that min/maxed skills were being “punished”. From lots and lots of PvP gameplay since that update, it seems to me that they reduced the importance of skill level points as part of the matchmaking algorithm to some degree but it’s still a factor.
Sounds good Kraterios.
Suggested the below before and possibly combining with some other suggestions -
1, highest hero is 10* than the lowest must b 8*
2, highest hero is plat than the lowest must be gold2
3, the highest hero power is 10k and the lowest must be 8k
4, experience will be earned in PVP matches (as suggested by a member)
5, if the player level is 70 and uses much lower hero in PVP, the said player will also be penalised. ( contributed by Kraterios)
Coupled with the other suggestions by other members, it will make the matching mechanism more balanced.
Failing to meet the above requisites they will be match up with Teams of more than 10k power as a starting base. Should the Top hero be be at 14k and the lowest at 7k the min/maxer will face am opponent team of 7k x 2 =14.
By having those penalty in place, players will than be forced to upgrade their team resulting in them playing in their bracket. Knowing that if they min/max they will get the short end of the stick.
Guys, feel free to contribute to the points. For balanced gameplay.
This is the problem with not letting us know how the matchmaking works. All we can work with are guesses. And people who figure matchmaking usually keep it for themselves to abuse the system.
There are players who get punished for using unbalanced teams and they don’t know why they are fighting stronger teams. There are also players who keep finding teams with same power but higher star rating, and they also don’t know why they are finding such unfair matches.
Yep. Devil’s advocate: almost no developer exposes the actual matchmaking formula to their community because that probably opens the door to even more abuse since people can really pick apart the mechanics.
Most of it seems good. I don’t think if you’re lvl 70 you should be penalized for have a WHOLE team of lower leveled heroes (on the same lvl of course). Sometimes I like to mess around with my lowest powered heroes that I haven’t leveled up yet because it’s no point if I don’t have the skill points or the cash to level up their skills. Because then that would probably be more min maxing. Just my two cents.
Yeh, I know. I also think exposing the formula makes exploiting it easier. But at least some icon on the pvp team building screen to let you know that your team will be punished, for example. It could be useful, mostly for new players.
This guy’s a lvl 70. I know the answer to this question but, any WOW players try taking out a level 70 at level 42? If so how’d that work out for you?
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Wow … he is rally bottom feeding … wordless …
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Assuming that we are using the term min/max to refer to both the intentional maximizing and minimizing of both skill levels as well as the act of matching high power and low power heroes in the same loadout, then yeah, I’d say both are cases where your opponent got dinged.
First example is especially egregious and is the worst kind of min/max: one super strong hero and a bunch of scrubs so that the one hero can beat up on a team of heroes that is likely going to be in the middle of their range. He got hit pretty hard with the power differential so I think it worked here. Frankly, Maven is a tough hero to pull this off with sometimes because she’s not burst DPS and is pretty squishy.
Second example is what I’m starting to see more and more of: fairly even group of heroes with just one or two scrubs to help bring the power level down just a little bit. I think this often will get punished in the power levels too but it never seems to be to the degree as your first example. Basically just easier to get away with, especially if the other heroes are all top-tier PvP options.
Ya, min/maxing with the wrong heroes just puts you at a huge disadvantage. Not only are you getting penalized and facing teams with much higher team power, the hero(s) that are inflating your team power aren’t really carrying their weight.
I’ve seen people come in with a really high level Matador, Gammond, Maven, etc. and they get wrecked. Min/maxing really one works with certain heroes like Dog, Mandrake, Heimlock, Flatline, Ifrit, Night, and especially Panzer. Panzer wrecks face enough in a normal bracket, and against weaker heroes she can clean house.
The thing is that isn’t even proper min/max. There’s no inherent advantage to keeping your level low and stars high. His only benefit is that he’s more likely to hit some junky lvl 70 C-teams (like yours, no offense) than another top-tier team.
A level 41 9* is roughly as strong as a level 70 6*. The reality is that a level 70 team of equal power would’ve thrashed you just as hard because he’s running Dogface/Mandrake/Panzer/Heimlock and you’ve got Steele/Surge/Sapphyr/Savage. It’s not even a really good min-max since Panzer and Ifrit both have garbage skills at Gold.
Min-Max simply means getting the most PVP effectiveness for the least amount of power “cost”. The system is good at penalizing people who try to run “big” heroes with little ones, if you try it with 96% of heroes you’ll usually end up like that Maven team (dead). The problem is that we have OP heroes like Dogface and Panzer who can wipe out teams so fast that even a power penalty doesn’t stop them.
Not really. There is an advantage to have low level and high stars.
A level 40 10* hero may have the same power than a level 70 8* hero, but the way skills work, the level 40 hero has advantage. His power is mostly due to raw stats, while the level 70 hero power comes from stats and leveling up skill that may be useless, like Sentry’s silver.
If both heroes have 10k power, the level 40 hero only has 1k power from skills and 9k power from stats, while the level 70 hero has 2.5k/7.5k (obviously making up all these numbers, but you get the idea)
Sogui, you are abusing a broken system. I already told you it’s okay. I would probably do it aswell if I could revert my heroes’ level because fighting plat Ifrit/Gale/Flatline/Panzer gets boring after a while. But stop trying to justify yourself, honestly.
It’s bad that we have to resort to these kind of tricks to avoid having boring matches.
I thought that too once but I noticed that my level 60 7* Keel had almost identical skill numbers at a level 70 6* Keel.
I looked into it and realized that stars scale up skills just as much as level, with the rough equation being 10 levels = 1 star.
The only way to avoid power bloat from heroes who don’t scale well is to avoid leveling AND starring them, but then they are typically so low on power that the imbalance gets penalized in matchmaking anyway (or they’re so squishy from missing levels and stars they die immediately).
You just made my argument even stronger.
A plat 60 7* Keel has almost identical skills than a plat 70 6*, but her bronze is worth 70 less power, her silver 90, gold 120, and plat 150, for a total of 430 power less.
I don’t generally agree with your point of view, but I have to say you are dead on here. The min/maxing is an issue, but it’s amplified ten fold by certain heroes. Don’t believe me? Take a high power Matador, Maven, and Mandrake with two other lower level heroes and see how the team fairs. You are mostly going to get crushed.
I have seen 9 and 10* Matador’s on other teams inflating their power but he’s such a weak hero right now it actually hurts having him more than it helps. Their’s only a few heroes you can really get away min/maxing with. That’s Dog, Panzer, Ifrit/Flatline combo, Night, Mandrake, Caine, and Heimlock. Anyone else and you aren’t really doing yourself any favors. Of course these are also the OP heroes currently running the meta.
my solution to fix this:
- 1st, you get the total power range matching like currently been done
- 2nd, you get your opponent get the details of total power comes likes lv, star, rank (not heroes name, because we’re gonna know are we get the advantage or not) and likewise
- 3rd, you get to choose to accept the match or not
ex1:
my team have with total 15k power with:
lv50 5star gold (3k)
lv50 5star gold (3k)
lv50 5star gold (3k)
lv50 5star gold (3k)
lv50 5star gold (3k)
and my opponent had 16k power with:
lv40 10star plats (8k)
lv40 8 star plats2 (8k)
or:
my team have with total 15k power with:
lv50 5star gold (3k)
lv50 5star gold (3k)
lv50 5star gold (3k)
lv50 5star gold (3k)
lv50 5star gold (3k)
and my opponent had 16k power with:
lv40 10star plats (8k)
lv1 3 star green (0,5k)
lv35 3 star silver2 (2,5k)
lv40 3 star silver (2k)
lv35 3 star bronze1 (2k)
so i get the rough idea whats my opponent doing so i’m not accepting the match
and likewise
but that’s gonna be more more complicated, the idea is to know what your opponent doing before accepting the match. If he’s doing min-max then you’re free to reject or accept the challenge. The punishment is, well i think most players gonna avoid min-max players so they’re rarely get play