Before I even get into why I think ifrit needs another nerf, let me start by saying yes I do have him plat myself, and yes I’m on the leaderboard in the newest pvp event.
With that said, I believe ifrit needs another nerf, or maybe just the disorientation debuff needs a tweak. If you’re hit with a disorient, a full clip of dogs skill only lands about 3-6 shots. That’s it. That’s a bit ridiculous.
Ifrit is also still bugged with his revives. I just played a few games where ifrit revived the same person 3-4 times. This stuff needs to be addressed.
I think his showtime skill should be cut in half, but it’s just my 2 cents.
His slow is insane to, I just see ifrit with panzer, slowing the whole team, panzer just breaking cover like nothing.
Panzer whipes out bio damage dealers in seconds (odachi 10* to)
3 matches in a row, you can’t do anything, panzer breaking cover, ifrit reviving everyone, and when you get a chance your whole team just starts trolling around with 60% reduced speed.
I lost 4 great players last 2 days, I hope this won’t continue the trend, I love this game but this is starting to get more and more insane.
I’ve started to play around 20k~ just to avoid this boring/insane matches.
People are saying healers got buffed, that’s not true, just a few got buffed, all the normal healers, gammond, matador, heimlock, Nightingale or keel just got a major nerf, besides their small health increase, they can’t heal anymore(Nightingale can, but she just gets whiped out at the start).
Right now it’s just ifrit, flatline and Caine with probably panzer and I’m just searching for the f this button to quit the match.
I agree 100%. The meta in this game is super stagnant right now. Really hope they bring in a mech with heal block for the next update. Getting tired of killing the same hero 2-3 times per game just to go the whole time in pvp.
I think this is stemming from one of the biggest issues, which seems to be the lack of decent energy DPS.
Right now the game is dominated by Dog and Panzer DPS as they are the only two that can really dish it out. Any would be energy heroes are killed almost immediately by Panzer. This in turn makes it extremely difficult to deal with Ifrit, even if there was a good energy DPS. It’s made all the worse when Flatline can bring Ifrit back, Heimlock reduces damage, Caine can shield, and Night or Mandrake can heal or invis.
Really we need to see that damage patch. Only having 10 or so viable characters in PVP while the other 50 available are crap makes for a very poor experience. You are forced to pay to win and play a very limited line up. Even if you do that, you still face the same teams you have to run yourself which makes for extremely stagnant and boring matches.
@Deathleech this is exactly what I covered bro… check it out and discuss there if you can.
@Majik… I agree that matches are boring and stagnant now but I don’t agree that Ifrit needs a nerf. Ifrit needs a counter.
Showtime is great and the full 10 seconds is needed for the player controlled dps and the AI to unload on the troublesome enemies. If it were any shorter the whole purpose would be taken away. The slow is great too.
As for Disorient, yes it is intended to screw up your aiming. It is not compulsory to fire while Disoriented so you have the choice of firing after the Disorient effect ends. I would rather sacrifice 10 seconds and get 80-90% damage out of Dogface’s charged up clips, than to fire when Disoriented and have to wait another for his next cycle to charge up.
I agree with what Sing said ^^^. Ifrit is good but not great. His only stage is PVP. The plat skill isn’t helpful during PVE. The real deal is that fortress is the only DPS energy hero. Gammond was nerfed way too much with shitty gold skills.
Showtime is the problem. I agree that it needs to be 10 seconds to really be useful. But does it need to have a 20 second reload which starts as soon as its castes so effectively it is a 10 second reload? Give us a break of 20 seconds so the opponent has a chance to do some damage too.
Another problem is that it scales perfectly with Dogfaces skills. To avoid getting killed by him you only have to change cover because a moving target is hard to hit with him. But with the slowdown you can hit every single bullet that makes 36 bullets in 10 seconds. The only one who could survive that is probably Cast.
Having a energy damage dealer to counter him would give you two mandatory heroes. You play Irfit or the counter. Or both. That wouldn’t change anything.
But a decent energy damage dealer is needed badly. Not as a counter for irfit but for general gameplay.
Yup agreed 100%. We need more DPS options for the game to grow.
It also needs to be burst damage, not just high damage over time. This is because currently, the damage window is an extremely small one and HAS to be between heals and outside Showtime activation.
That is fine for game design purposes BUT as a result of the way it works. Fortress cannot be a suitable DPS because if Recharge unloads when heals/overheals are going on then all that damage will just be a trickle. On the other hand of course if Recharge unloads at max during when all heals have already been finished then it could win big. However, it is impossible (or impractical) to expect players to time something 10 seconds in advance in a dynamic PVP game.
Hence, the energy hero design should follow a different template from Fortress - perhaps Heckler, Ronin, Prophet, etc,
Well giving your team hp AND more atk, all the while disorienting the enemy and slowing them seems like it could be an issue. Especially when they can have it up half the remaining match after the first use.
Really we need to see how Ifrit does without the current super powerful team combo built around him. Panzer eliminating any would be energy damage dealers right away that would kill Ifrit (not that there are any real energy damage dealers to begin with), and then the Ifrit/Flatline revives supported by heals/dmg reduction/invis is just a really powerful combo.
I have seen some recent teams trying to go heavy bio as a counter. Odachi seems to do ok as DPS since he doesn’t have any reductions vs Ifrit and does bonus to Panzer/Caine, but he is also low on hp and goes down easy regardless. Really that seems to be the issue with any would be DPS. They just don’t have the suitability to get their skills working.
Sapphyr is a great example of this. With the heal heavy teams dominating you would think her or Callious would be great counters. Unfortunately Sapphyr dies way to easy (especially to Panzer), and Callious is just not that good all around.
I try to play with odachi and sapphyr, even with with heimlock, phalanx, Caine and Nightingale you lose to panzer.
I fought 1 vs 1 odachi panzer, and panzer wins, just because she can break cover and messes up your reload.
Pair that up with the slow movement of ifrit, it’s impossible to reload and you’re just a sitting duck. Don’t forget the whole team missing their shots to
Even odachi his silver skill got reduced in speed from 60 to 30, which is single target not the whole team
My experience is more or less the same as yours. I wanted to add some additional points though.
First, Odachi’s top-end DPS is still a bit short. Unless he has a decent star advantage he still has trouble taking out some high-starred Mechs including Dog and Panzer. However, you are right that his major issue is health because even Dogface and Panzer can take him out if they focus on him.
Second, to create a suitable Energy DPS hero, that hero will have to have the following characteristics:
he has to be tanky enough to deal sustained DPS over the whole game
he has to deal burst damage (see my discussion about Fortress’ failure)
he has to be strong enough to withstand Panzer or Dogface’s attacks, but then it is important not to create a monster who cannot be killed by any hero whatsoever.
My suggestion would be that the hero, apart from having the usual DPS buffs (which should include a nuke or min-nuke for his Gold), he can have a Plat skill something like this:
“For the first 30 seconds of battle this Hero is immune to all Mechanical Damage. After that this Hero has [20%] damage reduction to Mechanical Damage, unless he is under a status effect such as Disorientation, Stun, Silence, etc”
In my view something like that would be pretty balanced. He cannot be killed by Mech damage within 30 seconds, thus giving him the leeway to do some serious damage in that time… but thereafter he should continue to have some strength BUT CAN BE COUNTERED by a status effect. So… best of both worlds - high damage, does not die to Panz, and has a counter.
Majik only complains because his big fat 9* Plat Dogface can’t win on ‘Auto’ against a decent Ifrit team. Oh no disorient screws over a sniper (the only thing its good at)!
Maybe save your shots until the debuff is over or pilot your Heimlock and save sterilize for Showtime. Dogface is a contender for best DPS in the game and you’re making a nerf thread because a Bio Support soft-counters him, what a joke.
Sing nailed the problem in his thread. Bio is strong right now because the only viable DPS is mech, if energy was as strong as mech, Ifrit would just be another Flatline style support.
Yeah no problem in beeing an easy target every ten seconds, for ten seconds, while doing no damage yourself, because you miss more shots and there is bonus HP for the whole team. Every damage dealer relys on Dps, not just Dogface.
Sterelize will help the first time, but has a longer cooldown, so it won´t help the second time Showtime is on.
An energy damage dealer wouldn´t help. Because having only one counter against a certain hero is no rebalance. Everyone has then to play Irfit or his counter or even both. Doesn´t really sound better.
Just higher Showtimes cooldown or let the charge begin after it is over. That is all you need to do.
Sterilize is only a couple seconds longer on cooldown but has a faster cast time, and since the AI tends to wait a few seconds before using it, you can always sterilize it.
The bonus HP and damage is practically not worth mentioning, its one of the worst scaling buffs in the game.
His heal is also one of the worst in the game. I honestly can’t think of an active healing skill that is actually worse. It’s a Nightingale heal in terms of strength but it has a much longer cooldown and a longer cast time. His DPS is flatline tier, hes a backliner who was given dual SMG’s with terrible accuracy, do the math.
His plat was the only reason to use him in PVP and now that’s been nerfed to a reasonable level too. When the Ifrit tournaments end I put Ifrit back on the shelf because I only use him for his bonus points.
Edit: I’m not suggesting we add one energy hero silly, I’m saying we need to buff the existing energy DPS and nerf heroes like Panzer who will flat out vaporize any energy DPS you try to use.
You are picking specific abilities out and talking about them in a vacuum. His platinum and silver skills are extremely potent, especially when used in conjunction with other heroes. It doesn’t really matter if his heal and DPS are weaker when he more than makes up for it in other areas.
Heimlock for example doesn’t have great DPS or heals either. His damage reduction, hp boosts, and health are why people take him though. Ifrit has an incredibly powerful platinum skill. In fact I would say it’s one of the most powerful in the game. Being able to bring any dead hero back if they haven’t killed someone and haven’t been revived yet? Without any sort of cool down between or cast needed? That’s amazing. It also brings them back with a ton of health.
This alone would be an awesome skill, but then you also has Showtime which is great, AND Flatline which means you literally need to kill 6 heroes minimum (because there is next to no way to burst Flatline AND Ifrit down unless they are really weak versions). Add to that Heimlock, Caine, Night, or Mandrake, along with Dog or Panzer as DPS and it’s just too much.
I completely agree. I think an easy fix to this would to make the cool down for showtime to start AFTER showtime has completed. Not once you cast. It essentially makes a 20sec cooldown skill a 10sec cooldown. That seems a bit too much in my opinion.
But like I said, I have a plat ifrit, and I still think he needs to be tweaked. But F**K me for posting my opinion on a forum site like the devs ask us to right? Lol
Heimlock starts the match with a 250k+ “heal” for the entire team, +25% healing bonus for 30 seconds, teamwide debuff removal + another 150k+ teamwide “heal” + a potentially massive self-heal, and then polishes it off with his actual heal, a teamwide 300k+ heal that also buffs healing by 25% for anyone under half health.
Even after his nerfs, the dude is still a healing god compared to Ifrit’s single 100k heal and 75k teamwide “heal”. If it counted bonus health (that gets damaged) like it counts shields, Heimlock would be grabbing MVP in 90% of the games he’s in.
Ifrits plat is the only reason he’s not an absolute joke - but even then you’re bringing a lot of power as dead weight for a 15-second conditional delayed rez. The only reason I can use him is because my Panzer will still shred any energy hero who can kill him quickly.
Imagine if Panzer and Dogface were energy… imagine how many people would be complaining about Ifrit in this thread? 0. That’s the real answer to whether Ifrit is OP or not - it comes back to elemental balance and why everyone has to bring Bio support when all the best DPS are mech.
I’ve played Plat-Ifrit in more PVP matches than anyone else posting here, if he was OP I would be running him in every comp imaginable like I run Panzer in every team I have. Instead I only bust him out for special comps and tournaments because otherwise he’s really not that great. Why would I lie about Ifrit otherwise?
I got Panzer straight away too and was the first to call her out on being OP, Ifrits just meh after his nerf but even in this meta that heavily favors Bio support - he’s hardly an all-star. If you can kill an enemy hero you get a 15-second 5v4 power play that makes it that much easier to kill someone else. Even if they come back the constant in-out of dead and living heroes while your team continues to charge skills and get topped off in healing virtually ensures you win.
Irfits heal is 200k at 10* Platinum. It is instantly and without overhealing. And has a 15 second cooldown, if you hit some bullets.
Heimlocks sterelize has a 30 second cooldown. It is starting with 2/3 at the beginnign of the match, so you can use it on the first showtime. But afterwards you can only use it on every second.
Get your facts straight before you post nonsense.
Also, as Deathleech pinted out you just talk about him out of context. He is easily beatable in an one on one. But you don´t get him one on one. What use is a 15 second 5-4 powerplay, if you have to kill all the other Heroes again afterwards. With him you can run a team of three damage dealers and one heal to buy some time. If the damage dealers are down, they just get revived and hit you at full force again.
So he is not OP, because if there would be a good energy damage dealer, he would kill him easily? This may be, but a good mech damage dealer kills the energy damage dealer in the same time. Balancing doesn´t mean to find a couter against a certain hero. Balancing is, if you can run different teams against him and have an chance of winning.