Star for star and grade for grade, there seem to be only 2 heroes who are able to burst down Nightingale’s self-healing skin: Panzer and Dogface. Paired with the relevant support cast a skinned Nightingale has enough health, armor and can self-heal while she is taking damage from either of these 2 mech heroes.
There has been alot of talk about whether Panzer ought to be nerfed further by reducing her clip size. What I can pretty safely say is that after thorough testing with friends, limiting Panzer’s clip to 16 rounds will mean that she will not be able to take down an appropriately set-up skinned Nightingale (with the equivalent stars and grade as Panzer).
Night will have just enough health to survive and while Panzer reloads (which takes a long time) Night and her support cast will heal her up. What support cast? Well there are at least 3 or 4 known configurations of heroes who were buffed this patch.
As for Dogface, there is only a limited window of opportunity for him to take down a skinned Night. His skills need time to charge up and therefore he engages only at the 30 second mark or so (depending on how you pilot him)… but at this time the support cast have their heals on standby or are already in the process of mid-heals.
By the way, I am not advocating for anything so please don’t attack me. I am just pointing out my observations. If you have the same or different experiences by all means share them.
One on one, sure… in fact Clyde, Razor, Kuno, Hardscope will all do the job of despatching her nicely. I am sure there are others too.
But the issue is that Night is seldom deployed as the single healer. She is paired with heroes that shield, buff and armor her up such that her group heal - including her blazingly fast self-heal - makes her very hard to take down.
Considering that Mech heroes ought to be good against her by virtue of elemental advantage… don’t you think it is “unfair” that Night skin can survive 2 of mech’s highest burst damage dealers, star for star and grade for grade?
I just don’t agree. I don’t see the big problem.
You are talking as you have never ever been able to defeat Nightingale - is this correct? We had another user her on the forum last week with a similar argument about her new skin / her ner team-healing ability. I didn’t understand the issue that time either. Sure, she’s not bad but having her + another support / healer doesn’t automatically result in a Victory. My win / lose ratio against Nightingale teams is about the same as against any other team.
I’ll find the other discussion thread I’m talking about, hold on.
I dunno if Nightingale with her skin is the problem alone, or if it’s the possible team combos. I know facing Night/Caine/Mandrake is pretty difficult because of Caine’s fast shield, Night’s fast group heal, and Mandrake making them go invisible and heal if they get low on health.
This team is still beatabe, but then add in more healing and reduced damage, like that from Heimlock, or revives like from Flatline and Ifrit, and it can be a lot to handle. Before her skin and the hp buffs with the last patch I never had issues with her at all. In fact she was pretty easy to focus down. Now her extra hp from the buff and skin, combined with the group heal make her harder to kill when properly supported.
Nope, I think you might not have read my post correctly or perhaps the nuances were not made clear.
Star for star, grade for grade, right now, only Panzer/Dogface can take out a skinned Nightingale if she is paired with several combos of heroes such as Deathleech mentioned. In this regard, if Panzer is nerfed further, it will only be Dogface left because her burst damage will just fall short of the necessary damage to kill Nightingale. Try it and see.
This is not the same as “you have never been able to defeat Nightingale” (I have, lots of times, but not star for star, grade for grade, when paired with certain other heroes).
It is also not the same as “Nightingale skin heals too fast” (question settled by developers that Night skin recharges at same rate as her default bronze heal).
So when stuff like this happens, I actually do something that is or should be impossible to achieve?
I cropped away all the power indicators because I don’t want the discussion to be about my power vs. their power - what we’re talking about here is that Nightingale + those over heroes = impossible to beat. You just gotta take my word for that my team and the enemy team were pretty equal this time. This isn’t something extraordinary; this team gets beaten all the time, just as this team beats others all the time.
Yes, I gotta say, I am surprised by the result on the face value as your picture shows; but of course the details are important too. Overall team power being equal or almost equal to yours is one thing but internal balance too; and without gameplay evidence, assuming that your opponent’s heroes were reasonably configured and that he was playing properly I can’t see how come the enemy Panzer did not manage to take out at least one of your blue heroes (or maybe she did but Ifrit revived).
If I was running the enemy team (on the assumption that the hero power levels were reasonably configured) I would have bright confidence to take down your team 5-0.
Well done, though. Please share the hero power details so that at least I can learn.
My Ifrit is only at gold so he can’t revive anyone. Actually his role in this team is next to none: any other healer would have done a better jobb AND maybe put some DPS in as well. None in the example above was at Platinum - it was gold all the way through. I could post 4 of these examples each time I make a PVP run, I think that goes for almost anyone playing PVP a lot. I could also post examples where the same enemy team totally wipes me out, maybe I didn’t pay attention, got unlucky with the aiming etc. As I see if, spoken from experience, is that Nightingale in a nurse suit doesn’t make a foundation for an unbeatable team. She just makes it more important to focus your fire correctly.
I’d love to see input from other users as well!
I mean, I don’t wanna post screenshots of battles telling only my side of the story and cutting out the hero power details and other relevant information.
I also don’t wanna post all my victories over Nightingale with skin and saying Night with skin is a losing proposition.
We can construct arguments using selective information and ask for nerfs/buffs using selective information (which is where I feel this forum is headed/has been heading recently)… and use that to play the developers… but that isn’t what I personally want to do.
Nope because whenever I / someone do there’s always someone else trying to find tiny details to point on and say stuff like “of course you won, your Halloway has 42 more power than their Caine!”. And that’s not relevant to the thesis that Nightingale + those = unbeatable.
As I said, just gotta take my word for this being a fair fight; all heroes in both teams at gold, all at maximum level. I didn’t count stars but you can always find me in the game and look my heroes up to see how well-evolved they are and that I wasn’t using some min-max (?) method because I don’t understand those. And the enemy team was also fairly balanced.
I cropped the power indicators out while I saved the screenshot so for this particular example I don’t even have the opponents name saved.
I agree that is a poor way of argument. Unfortunately the forum has become a quarrelsome place with people unable to accept viewpoints counter to their own.
I guess we’ll never know, apart from taking your word.
If so I am indeed surprised that the team with the regular Panzer and Caine lost - if so, would this picture not support the proposition that Panzer is not overpowered and can even be taken down by blue-heavy teams? You seem to suggest that this is a common occurrence in your experience, so… perhaps you should chime in with this picture when the topic of Panzer needing a further nerf comes up every now and then.
I know you’re not a min-maxer, neither am I. But respectfully this has nothing to do with the topic on hand.
ULFPAM, without power levels it’s hard to really comment on much. Sure you can comment on the team set ups, but if their team had a 5 star, no bar gold Night and Panzer and your entire team was all 7-8 star with a few gold ranks that’s going to make a HUGE difference.
I am actually surprised you won against that Nightingale team with yours. In fact I am surprised you win many matches with that team. That’s not a knock against you, it’s just when I face similar teams to yours they go down pretty easy due to lack of burst dmg, healing, and dmg reduction they have. That and they are all energy heroes which makes them susceptible to Dog and Panzer damage. As Sing points out, the enemy’s Panzer should have easily killed your Halloway or Hivemind.
I am guessing one or all of a few different things were going on? A big power difference (you being around 5k or higher), the other player auto-ing, the other player not focusing down your Halloway or Hivemind at the start and letting them ramp up with drones/halograms, or the other player just being really bad?
Let me ask you this, is this a common occurrence? I have had matches where my team shouldn’t win, but I somehow do. We all have those. For instance last night I faced a similar team to your opponent with a bunch of my own left over energy heroes (believe it was Surge, Hivemind, Flatline, Butters, and Baron). Somehow I still won. I have also beat Nightingale teams a number of times. Usually when I play the good Nightingale teams though, they will switch to a hero being focused and roll spam so they are incredibly hard to kill with the invis, group heal, and shields. Heck, I do it myself when I play with Nightingale.
As I stated in the other thread i don´t think that this skin is to strong. The reason for it is simple. The heal is just not strong enough. Just don´t go for her first. Go for an easy to hit frontline or middle line target to charge your skills and get an 4 to 5 advantage. A damage dealer negates her heal with half a clip.
Sapphyre dies really fast, even after the health buff, because she doesn’t have enough hp. She only has 30k more hp than the same rank/star Kunoichi I have and we all know how fast she goes down. That is still about 50k less than most other heroes at the same level.
I do wish there were more heroes with heal block, or the ones in the game were not so weak. This would definitely help with the over abundance of all or almost all healer teams.